你有用水冷幫電腦降溫嗎?(水冷討論區)

雲海

原帖由 Lawrence19 於 2007-8-27 02:55 AM 發表

導熱性好似係屬於物理性質...完全唔關化學事喎...

i dun think chemistry & physics & biology doesnt have any principle related to one another
for instance , the great thermal conductivity of metal can be explained by the structure ( giant metallic structure )

俠4邪魂

大家好似離晒題-.-點解講緊phy同chem既野..............................................

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風冷係唔係只係for cpu?_?
風冷=pro d既風扇-.-??

two624

原帖由 俠4邪魂 於 2007-9-5 04:44 PM 發表
大家好似離晒題-.-點解講緊phy同chem既野..............................................

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風冷係唔係只係for  ...

一.唔係
二.唔一定有風扇先叫風冷

葉／/

原帖由 雲海 於 2007-8-28 11:17 PM 發表

i dun think chemistry & physics & biology doesnt have any principle related to one another
for instance , the great thermal conductivity of metal can be explained by the structure ( giant meta ...

其實我地講緊既野係唔係離開左水箱水既導熱性比水好依個話題呢-__-
其實好簡單囉..水箱水係混合左導熱性比水好既物質同水之ma-__-水箱水與普通既蒸餾水係兩回事
希望唔好再有1d水既熱容係改變唔到既所謂理論而再有之前既情況出現囉-_-

我開依個主題係為左知到下水冷究竟多唔多人識同普唔普及
同埋可以用我有限既知識黎解答一下對水冷有興趣既人既問題....
開依個主題唔係為左俾各位風冷支持者入黎話風冷好風冷勁..雖然依個可能係事實..但係希望各位大大唔好係度發表

葉／/

原帖由 two624 於 2007-9-5 07:19 PM 發表

一.唔係
二.唔一定有風扇先叫風冷

但係冇風扇咪冇對流囉-__-

two624

原帖由 葉／/ 於 2007-9-7 02:08 AM 發表


但係冇風扇咪冇對流囉-__-

唯有靠case風扇,雖然效果差dd,不過單靠cooler都夠

葉／/

小弟近排幫朋友攪緊部新機......
遲下等隻泵有貨上左水之後影d相同各位分享下

大豪

原帖由 葉／/ 於 2007-9-7 02:05 AM 發表


其實我地講緊既野係唔係離開左水箱水既導熱性比水好依個話題呢-__-
其實好簡單囉..水箱水係混合左導熱性比水好既物質同水之ma-__-水箱水與普通既蒸餾水係兩回事
希望唔好再有1d水既熱容係改變唔到既所謂理 ...

你好~小弟愚問.........

水箱水的效用不是防止锈蝕和電瓶效應嗎?

未聽過導熱性會比水好=o="

同埋如果話水箱水既導熱性較好......咁唔通成set水冷既水都係用水箱水=o=?

葉／/

原帖由 大豪 於 2007-9-9 05:02 PM 發表


你好~小弟愚問.........

水箱水的效用不是防止锈蝕和電瓶效應嗎?

未聽過導熱性會比水好=o="

同埋如果話水箱水既導熱性較好......咁唔通成set水冷既水都係用水箱水=o=?

大大睇你簽名都係玩水冷
其實我應該唔可以用水箱水黎講水冷內既水
不如我解釋一下普通水冷內用既水係咩成份好嗎?
一般人會係油站買冷卻劑番黎同蒸餾水混合..就成為水冷內既水...咁小弟就叫左做水箱水-___-可能我用錯字眼..sorry

rockydc77

原帖由 kyva1929 於 2007-8-23 08:46 AM 發表

even in view of only CE level, water as a coolant was mainly due to its high specific heat capacity, as well as high specific latent heat of vaporization.

but not to lower its heat capacity  ...

A coolant, or heat transfer fluid, is a fluid which flows through a device in order to prevent its overheating, transferring the heat produced by the device to other devices that utilize or dissipate it. An ideal coolant has high thermal capacity, low viscosity, is low-cost, and is chemically inert, neither causing nor promoting corrosion of the cooling system.

其實所謂的冷卻劑有用的原因不是其"specific heat capacity" 然而是該散熱能力, 大家都應該知道呢度所講的熱(Heat)其實就是Heat flow, 無論風冷定水冷我地只不過是想將溫度下降, 我又用返呢位人兄咁鍾意In the view of CE Level, Heat Transfer其中的主要三種形式:Conduction Convection同Radiation, 所謂的水冷以我對電腦的淺薄知識來看, 應該是Conduction, 然而之後會引申到下面條式, 即係雲海兄所講的Thermal Conduction


thermal conductivity = heat flow rate × distance / (area × temperature difference)

由條式所見Heat conduction only takes place only if there is a difference of temperature. Indeed, it is found experimentally that the rate of heat flow through a substance is proportional to the difference in temperature between its ends.

然而, kyva1929所引述水的例子, coolant是不是要有高specific heat capacity呢? 其中會引入一些簡單concept:Concept of internal energy, 因為這是電腦版, 在這裡就不必討論, 回到水的例子, Water冇錯係有好高的Specific Heat Capacity, 但係請問甚麼是Specific Heat Capacity, 我們可以試証從單位抽出例子 - JKg^-1K^-1 - it takes certain amount of energy to raise the temperature of 1 kgof water by 1 K. CE所說Water as a coolant, 其實是require a minimal drop in temperature for a given amount of heat transfer. Its high heat capacity and low cost makes it a suitable heat-transfer medium. 這才是真正的解釋, 之後的推論, 應該一個中五水平的理科生應該可以做到
(所以切勿讀死書)

至於雲海兄所講的Depends on the structure of the atom, 我就不必多說, 因為這個例子只是Fundamental of Matter, 其後也有少少錯誤的地方, 要解釋的話也要很久的時間, 所以不便指出, 也許我舉一個簡單的例子, 大家應該知道coolant不只是只有水一種, 例如:oil, liquified propane, haloalkane/Freon也可以用作Coolant, 幾種不同的Structure of Atoms, 又如何用Structure去determine那一種才是coolant?

後記: 其實我重點不是推論甚麼Specific Heat Capacity定係Thermal Conductivity, 我想說的就是中學所讀的有很多都是ideal cases(理想的例子), 不是真實的例子, 何況這裡是電腦區, 不是拋書包的地方, 應該好好看一些比較專業/有豐富經驗寫出的內容的例子, 例如版主們, two624兄等等, 不應該沉淪在那些不現實的中學的物理和化學例子之中, 始終經驗比學識較重要.

aRz乂杰

如果係Phy方面黎講
用水降溫係會好過用冷氣
但係$的問題......

two624

原帖由 rockydc77 於 2007-9-16 06:47 PM 發表


A coolant, or heat transfer fluid, is a fluid which flows through a device in order to prevent its overheating, transferring the heat produced by the device to other devices that utilize or d ...

經驗?經驗話我知,

ultra120 ex將q6600呢粒煲水cpu係full load時降到得番4x-5x度左右

你唔識爬文都唔該你逐頁睇下d會員名

rockydc77

原帖由 two624 於 2007-9-17 05:43 PM 發表

經驗?經驗話我知,

ultra120 ex將q6600呢粒煲水cpu係full load時降到得番4x-5x度左右

你唔識爬文都唔該你逐頁睇下d會員名

我只不過將上方兩邊學術性文章指出錯的地方, 沒有評論水冷對任何硬件的好/壞處

two624

原帖由 rockydc77 於 2007-9-17 09:57 PM 發表


我只不過將上方兩邊學術性文章指出錯的地方, 沒有評論水冷對任何硬件的好/壞處

佢地都唔係討論水冷,只係討論phy同chem,仲要有謬誤

都係勸佢地實際試真d水冷同風冷威力

雲海

原帖由 rockydc77 於 2007-9-16 06:47 PM 發表


A coolant, or heat transfer fluid, is a fluid which flows through a device in order to prevent its overheating, transferring the heat produced by the device to other devices that utilize or d ...

I did not say that we can judge whether it is a coolant by looking into its structure
But i only point out the golden fact that the thermal conductivity hinges on the structure of the particles
Thanks , If there is any mistake please tell me .
Besides , your reply makes me confused
Can we say ' structure of atom ' ? Based on my dire poor chemistry knowledge , all atoms resemble . So we can only say ' the structure of the molecule / metal / formula unit ' .
The word ' structure ' in chemistry is meant by how the constituent particles are arranged and what are they

[ 本帖最後由 雲海 於 2007-9-27 07:56 PM 編輯 ]

rockydc77

原帖由 雲海 於 2007-9-27 07:47 PM 發表

I did not say that we can judge whether it is a coolant by looking into its structure
But i only point out the golden fact that the thermal conductivity hinges on the structure of the particle ...

對唔住, 可能我英文唔好, 可能誤解左你o既意思都唔定
但係有一點想更正的就是Structure的問題, 你所指"thermal conductivity hinges on the structure"在concept上是有點兒錯誤的
應該是:The thermal conductivity of metals can be explained in mobile electrons. Electrons in the regions of high temperature (i.e. electrons with high kinetic energy) more rapidly and randomly towards the cooler regions of the metal, transferring their energy to other electrons throughout the metal. (重申一次, 本人的英文十分差, 有錯請原諒)
關於電子方面再詳細少少也可以討論到Conductance Band和Valence Band的問題, 因為我地的電腦主要由一些Silicon Chipset組成
所謂的Conductance Band是the range of electron energy, higher than that of the valence band, sufficient to make the electrons free to accelerate under the influence of an applied electric field and thus constitute an electric current. Semiconductors may cross this conduction band when they are excited. Because the difference of their energy levels become blurred. In structures with enormous numbers of atom, the molecular orbitals form a band of orbital energies. Because the valence shells of many metal atoms are only partly filled, the corresponding molecular orbitals, particularly those with the higher energy will be empty or only partly occupied. If the energy range of a band of moelcular orbitals filled with valence electrons is close to the energy range of an unoccupied band of molecular orbitals, bonding molecular orbital valence electrons can readily move into the unfilled band. The additional freedom of motion gives the electrons considerable mobility, which imparts the qualities of good thermal and electrical conductivity that we associate with metals.






我盡量也不用英語吧, 大概是講導熱的能力在化學上可以用流動電子作解釋, 之下的就是一些流動電子解釋和能量層的概念,然而, 流動電子的存在不一定是Giant Metallic Structure (引用#61), 以我記得鑽石的導熱率應該是最高, 900-2320 m*k, 但係鑽石不是giant metallic structure, 請問可以解釋一下嗎? 不過你鍾意點講都得, 你可以話mobile electron又關hybridization事又得, 如果想認真研究, 請認真查書, 再有唔明, 可以pm我/add我msn(雖然我phy / chem也不太好。但係有一個好核心的問題:水冷不是用水的嗎? 為什麼會提到金屬的導熱性呢?這不是問非所答嗎?

關於導熱的問題, 請回到我#70的文章, thermal conductance is the quantity of heat that passes in unit time through a plate of particular area and thickness when its opposite faces differ in temperature by one degree. For a plate of thermal conductivity k, area A and thickness L this is kA/L, measured in W·K−1.

咁有的人可以問, 點解K.E.高會o的Electrons(電子)郁得快o的呢? 呢的野可以問下雲海兄了, 在下的Chem也是不太好, 另外也可以在很多人喜歡的Wiki內尋找Collision Theory, 可能會有點幫助(本人就不太喜歡用Wiki, 因為有時內不詳細/不正確, 我習慣查書(當然不是甚麼New Way Chemistry個的垃圾書), 如果真係想讀好Chem, 大學又想修Chem的話可以買一些比較好的參考書, 例如Chemistry the science in context By thomas R. Gilbert/Chemistry in Context by Graham Hill 等等, 不是在電腦區內不停用一些咁sophisticated的專有名詞同埋abbreviation 又不解釋一下來源和當中的原理, 讓人十分混亂)

BCOOBCBCO

好多學術性既對話....中文我就睇得明...英文就-_-
令到我呢d想學野既人都睇唔明你地講咩!_!可唔可以轉中文講下咁呀- -"!?thx!^_^"
路過的- -"

Qoo記

原帖由 0o~kevin~o0 於 2007-8-15 10:17 PM 發表
好鬼貴
俾錢我開冷氣效果都已經好好

開冷氣最實際

同花~順~

聽說水冷裝得唔好會好容易發生火警@@"

葉／/

原帖由 同花~順~ 於 2007-10-2 06:46 AM 發表
聽說水冷裝得唔好會好容易發生火警@@"

係咩....點解我未聽過既
我只係聽過火牛會引發火警